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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  June 30, 2011 2:00am-3:00am EDT

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o'donnell" starts right now. good evening. i'm chris matthews. in washington tonight, leading off, wild about harry. truman that is. president obama called out a do nothing congress today, saying congress needs to stop taking vacations and do its job. he shaped the battlefield for both 2011 and 2012. if the poor and the sick and middle class have to accept spending cuts, then millionaires, billionaires, corporate jet owners and hedge fund managers will simply have to pay more. this is just what supporters on the president's side have long wanted him to say.
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also, how close will the 2012 election get to be? a lot closer than 2012 most people believe. and a new poll shows who has the best chance of besting president obama. plus, sarah palin now says whether she's going to run for president is a tough decision. well, i think it's time to call this for what it is. a devious attempt by someone who is almost certainly not going to run to stay in the spotlight. maybe it's time we stopped paying attention. and when georgia passed a tough immigration law, its agricultural industry discovered it suddenly was faced with a severe labor shortage. so what did north carolina do? it passed its own tough sounding
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immigration law that exempts the farming industry. it exempts the very people it pretends to affect. in other words, it's a joke. let me finish, by the way, with the president of the united states finally telling the republicans in his own way, he's mad as hell and he's not going to take it anymore. we start with president obama's press conference today, chuck todd is political director for nbc news and chief white house correspondent. chuck, i heard the earth move today. the president, he is out there. here he is on sharing the pain. let's listen. this is a new barack obama politically speaking. >> the revenue we're talking about isn't coming out of the pockets of the middle-class families that are struggling. it's coming out of folks who are doing extraordinarily well. and are enjoying the lowest tax rates since before i was born. if you're -- if you are a wealthy ceo or hedge fund manager in america right now, your taxes are lower than they have ever been. they're lower than they've been
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since the 1950s. and you can afford it. you'll still be able to ride on your corporate jet. you're just going to have to pay a little more. >> chuck, the president certainly operating today from fact. we've got a "new york times" poll just out this morning that showed the majority of the american people, all the people, basically blaming the bush administration, that's 26%, for the condition we're in right now. or 25% blame wall street. that's the majority who believe the blame lies elsewhere. only 1 in 12, 8%, are blaming obama. is that what gave him confidence today to point the finger at wall street and the rich of this country and saying if we're going to balance the budget, deal with the debt ceiling problem we're going to deal with those guys? >> reporter: it wasn't wall street. it was congress in particular. the entire press conference started with the opening statement, chris, before a question was even asked, he hit
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congress for not passing the three or four pieces of legislation that he believes could help the economy. and he kept repeating a phrase. and that's pending in congress right now. and he would say it three or four times. i think it is more a couple of things. he's trying to define the terms of the debate back on his side a little bit. you know, one of the arguments that democrats have been quietly making on capitol hill is that for six months the white house has let congressional republicans, particularly house republicans and arguably the tea party caucus, to define the terms of the debate on the deficit and debt. and today for the first time you heard the president make a much
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more -- an argument where he didn't sound so defensive about it. in fact, you could tell congressional democrats are happy. the first word in nancy pelosi's press release was "bravo." then she goes this is the argument democrats have been making for six months. sort of like, hey, buddy, where have you been? but also praising him. >> i think so, too. howard feinman is here. it seems to me this is a recognition a year and a half before the election. the country's not in a good mood. the country is blaming the
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direction of this country on wall street and the republicans and not so much on him. you want to keep the direction of the anger going that way. >> right. he does it in the typical obama way. the typical president obama way which is sweet reasonableness. i'm the adult in the room. this is not about ideology. he's not making some sweeping ideological argument. he said about taxing the wealthiest people, millionaires and billionaires and corporate jets and the oil depletion allowance and so forth, he said, you know, look, i don't think that's really radical, he said. >> does he mean he's going to get it or he wants to argue he wished he could if it doesn't
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get there? >> both. i think he'll try to get it. if he can't get it he'll say this do nothing congress, the only thing it did was protect the richest people and guys who fly around in corporate jets. >> you two guys know this is so much what harry truman did in 1948 when he faced a republican congress. truman just stuck it to them. here's president obama basically chaneling harry truman again here on congress taking vacations instead of working. let's listen. >> if by the end of this week we have not seen substantial progress, then i think members of congress need to understand we are going to, you know, start having to cancel things and stay here until we get it done. you know, they're in one week. they're out one week. and then they're saying obama's got to step in. you need to be here. i've been here.
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i've been doing afghanistan and bin laden and the greek crisis. you stay here. let's get it done. >> well, no surprise here, chuck and howard, a statement from house majority leader eric cantor reads, quote, despite the lecture from the president today, the house will not agree to a debt limit increase that raises taxes. and speaker boehner's statement reads in part, the president's sorely mistaken if he believes a bill to raise the debt ceiling and raise taxes would pass the house. the new majority in the house is going to help people. they're on talking points. literally they are just sitting up there and basically they don't care how long the clock runs. they don't care. they're not going to raise taxes. they're going to let the debt sit out there. >> chris, honestly, i don't know anymore. i used to believe that there was a pretty good deal to be had here. i think if the deal could be cut between president obama and senate republican leader mitch mcconnell that you'd see the oil subsidies gone. you'd probably -- you know, that that would be part of the deal. the corporate jet thing would be part of the deal. a couple of the other issues there that -- that the president talked about today would be part of the deal. but mcconnell is not going to agree to anything until he knows that it could pass the republican-led house. and you know what? cantor and boehner can count votes. and there's a reason why cantor backed out of the talks. and there's a reason why you're hearing this rhetoric. i don't think they have the votes or even close to even cutting that deal. if they were, i don't think we'd be in the position we're in today. >> and the tea party people that went to all those crazy meetings that were spitting on congress
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and yelling and hooping and hollering, are those people running the country right now? i get the feeling they are. if they can veto basically the congress doing anything about the debt ceiling. >> by the process of elimination they are. because as chuck explained, basically it's eric cantor who is the tribune of the tea party here. i think in addition to mitch mcconnell, john boehner, the speaker, would go along with a deal like that. i was talking to his people today. i detected a little bit of wiggle room there. >> yeah. >> but if cantor bails on boehner, and cantor is the guy defending the tea party, that splits the republicans in the house. then it'll never happen. that's basically the dynamic here. >> just to rattle the cage a little bit chuck and howard, here is the president on how his daughters do their homework a day ahead of time. they don't do all-nighters. this is a very personal shot at members of congress who are grown-ups, saying they're not as good as the president's kids at doing their assignment. this is personal. listen. >> malia and sasha generally finish their homework a day ahead of time. malia's 13. sasha's 10. it is impressive. they don't wait until the night before. they're not pulling
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all-nighters. they're 13 and 10. you know, congress can do the same thing. if you know you've got to do something, just do it. >> chuck, my reading on this is this is warfare. talking down to congress, saying you're not even as good as my teenage daughters at doing your homework, which i assign, basically, they're going to go after him about his weekday golf and everything else now, aren't they? it seems like this is open season now in the politics of who gets blamed for the government screwing up the debt ceiling? >> reporter: they are. chris, you and i were having a conversation earlier about this idea that at the end of the day the public's going to assign blame. right now they're assigning blame on all of washington. okay? that's president obama and congress. and i think what you saw here is a subtle attempt by the president to say, you're going to assign blame, it's what we've been talking about, it was an overarching theme of the press conference. assign the blame to congress. we've seen the polls. they're back to their lows of where they were doing the health care debate even when it was all
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democratic controlled there. they're back to their lows of where they think what kind of change the republicans have brought. majority in our polling shows that they don't think they brought any change. so is the president trying to assign blame because he knows it's easy for the public to see that blame. they already don't like congress in general. they usually don't. >> this is generally how we're going after congress. here are the numbers again. i hope we can show the screen here again. bush administration blamed by the public. after 2 1/2 years of obama still 26% blame bush and his team. 25% blame wall street. 11% blame the congress. i would presume that means both parties in congress. but only 1 in 12, 8%, blame the president. i would argue that this poll staggers me. the fact that the public -- doesn't that surprise you? >> it's the most glaring number of that kind i've seen in any of these polls. by now the conventional wisdom would have said and had said, this president owns the economy. >> that's what romney thinks. >> but it doesn't seem to be so. it really doesn't seem to be so. >> okay. this is where the wind may change. this day in the summer -- the
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early summer of 2011 could be like earlier points in political campaigns where things change because the leader of one party says, i'm not going to take it anymore. i'm going to blame the other side. here's harry truman. we got an old piece of footage. this is the middle of the night. 1:45 in the morning. it's about 100 degrees or more in the convention hall at the democratic convention in 1948. he's running mid-30s in the polls, about to get killed by dewey. he pulls a rabbit out of his pocket. here he is in '48. let's watch. >> my duty as president requires that i use every means within my power to get the laws the people need on matter of such importance and urgency. i am therefore calling this congress back into session on the 25th of july!
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on the 26th day of july, which we all in missouri call turnip day, i'm going to call that congress back and i'm going to ask them to pass laws causing crisis and to meet the housing crisis. >> chuck, in "give 'em hel barry >> can give them hell barry be as tough as give them hell harry? >> i know we're talking about the truman comparisons here. there was another part of this press conference that made me feel as if he is learning the lessons from clinton, circa '95, '96. same thing that obama was,
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clinton was set back politically. republicans take over congress. frankly has a hard time the first six or eight months dealing with then speaker beginning riff and senate majority leader bob dole. then he found his footing during the budge et showdown and was able to start the rhetoric, fine, you want to do this. we all got to make tough choices. i'm saying the choices between a corporate airplane and funding the college -- been some of the criticism democrats have been saying of late that he hadn't done well. >> now all he has to do is get speaker boehner to complain about getting in the back of "air force one" like newt did and he'll be in great shape. coming up, fasten your seat belts. the 2012 election will be a lot closer everybody thinks than the 2008 one was. so we'll see. let's find out in a minute how close it's going to be and what it means for president obama's re-election chances. if it gets really close, it gets really close. coming up next. oh, yeah.
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the 2012 ad wars have already begun and the democrats are sharpening their attack against republicans in a new republicans sure hope so. but it's not so easy, especially when they don't like their options. we've got new numbers from the "new york times" today and cbs. the new poll, 47% job approval with the president, not bad, not great. 44% disapproval. fair to midland there.
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39% approval on handling the economy. i'm amazed there are that many people happy with it actually. 52%, no surprise there, disapprove. on the big blame question as we showed you earlier most voters still blame the bush administration, 26%, and wall street 25% for the bad economy with hardly any change, by the way, from a year ago. those numbers amaze me. will that help the president get reelected. msnbc political analyst michael steele, former chairman of the republican national committee. bob shrum is a democratic analyst. aren't you stunned that the people continue to blame the last administration much more than they blame the president for the economic calamity we're still in? >> i think people are pretty smart. they understand that this had its origins in 2008. that the unemployment that exploded in the months after bush left office exploded
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because of that economic collapse. and i think that the most interesting numbers in that whole poll show the president still leading, not by big margins, still leading every republican at a time of maximum vulnerability. chris, you'll recall that at one point in 1983, a year before he won a landslide in '84, ronald reagan was losing in the polls to both walter mondale and john glen. i'm not one of those people who think's the president's in maximum trouble here. i think we're at a turning point, a defining moment, and that's what i think his press conference was about today. >> what do you think, michael? what do you make of obama being a little more popular than unpopular? >> it doesn't surprise me. i think the president has done a masterful job of keeping himself in the middle of the road with
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the american people largely. not being able to take on a lot of the baggage from the last term of administration doesn't surprise me again that the numbers show republicans are largely being blamed for the economy. there's been poor messaging coming out of the republican national committee, coming out of the other committees about what it is the ryan plan is about, the wisconsin debate. >> but they're not blaming the ryan plan. they're blaming bush, w. himself. >> i agree. >> everybody knows, by the way, they can't sell their house is when it started. it didn't start with obama. >> the point is where you started and where you are now is light years in politics. the reality is you've got a chance to explain it and we've not done a good job. >> pretty fair answer. here's the new mcclatchymarist poll. 36% saying they definitely will vote to re-elect him. that leaves 21%. so america. 40% roughly on both sides. 20% decide the election. i think we grew up with this.
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gentlemen, this is america. 20% sit out there. they don't pay a lot of attention to the election until maybe a month before. then they begin to grind it out. they may not even tell their partner, their spouse, how they're going to vote. but they think it through at the end. bob, your thoughts on that number that 20% are still holding out, haven't made up their mind? >> look, this is a point where the president has real problems. the economy is not recovering as fast as it should. i agree with michael, by the way, and he's right about the ryan medicare plan in the sense that putting that out there as the leading republican issue over the last few months has been an incredible mistake from their point of view. they should have been talking about the economy. it's not clear to me that they have much to say about the economy.
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i think as we move into next year, as we see where this economy goes, the president's going to be in a stronger position, especially because you have a range of republican candidates which have left the republican party looking like it's waiting for gadot. >> did you like the way bob termed what you say? >> i like the way -- >> michael, wasn't that right? >> no. you said basically they didn't do a good job of selling ryan. you said they made a mistake of selling it. >> "the new york times" times cbs poll fiepds 23% are aefed. with the field in 2007. people don't seem to like your field of candidates. more evidence coming up here. "the new york times" times poll, when they asked whether people were enthusiastic about the guys running for president -- mostly guys, michele bachmann is a woman, of course -- 67% prefer no one. they cannot get excited. this is a weak field. bachmann, by the way, is only at 7 with romney tied. herman cain at 2%. mccain at 2%. he's the guy that lost last time. >> it's work that has to be done. i think a lot of the base right now is waiting for someone to step up and take control of this. >> they know romney very well. what good is it? they know him very well. >> they do and they don't. i mean, running in '12 is not the same as running four years ago. >> what's the christie new
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aspect that we haven't heard about? >> he's talking with the sleeves rolled up. >> that is it. >> my point is and you know this to be true, chris. one election cycle doesn't translate into the other. the reality of it is there's still a lot of time. a lot of time. >> catch this new poll just out. they ask who you like for president on the republican side. they also ask republican leading independents to join in. mitt romney, a hearty 19%. then three people in a row, giuliani, perry and palin all nudging up behind him there at 13 and 13 and 11. none of whom have announced for president. so it looks like most republicans are still looking to the ones that aren't running as people they like. they don't like what's being put in front of them. mikey doesn't like the cereal. >> i think that's right. i don't think people are going to get enthused, republicans are going to get enthused about mitt romney's lower arms because he
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rolls up his sleeves. i think they're looking for something genuinely different. i think rick perry is probably going to run. he has an opening to run. he's the only real southerner -- he would be the only real southerner in this race. >> he's going to run for the presidency of the republic of texas, though. >> that's his vulnerability. >> he wants to secede from the union. >> that's his vulnerability in a general election. in a republican primary he might do very, very well. remember, this is the party that nominated christine o'donnell for the senate last week. rick perry is going to have money if he runs. a lot of jobs created in texas. >> i can't believe he's running. >> i think he'd be a strong candidate. >> i predict he doesn't run. do you predict he runs? >> i don't predict he runs. the reality remains one of these individuals has to catch fire with the base. they've got to lead up to the ames polling in august. we'll see what happens.
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>> as a public figure, the guy just doesn't add up to me. thank you, michael steele. thank you, bob shrum. up next, michele bachmann says the press wants to see a mud wrestling fight between her and sarah palin. she says that. catch the side show next. i think she has something to do with this wrestling match. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. [ doctor ] here's some health information for people over 50.
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call the toll free number on the screen for your free information kit today. the risk is real. take the next step. call today. now to the side show, first up, when stars collide. today the south carolina q & a michele bachmann said the media wants to see a mud wrestling fight between her and sarah palin. >> the press has tried to pit
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you and sarah palin against each other. what is your relationship with her? >> i have a very good relationship with governor palin. this seems to be their sideline right now. they want to see two girls come together and have a mud wrestling fight. and i'm not going to give it to them. >> well, the fact is that bachmann's interested to keep palin out of this race and reduce palin's influence as she starts to side with another candidate. that fact occurred to at least one member of bachmann's campaign team.
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>> sarah has not been serious over the last couple years since she got the vice presidential thing handed to her. she didn't go to work in the sense of trying to gain more substance. she gave up her governorship. >> bachmann said she didn't want this said, but it's obviously to anyone paying attention here the competition between bachmann and palin is real. only one can win the nomination. and all the rest of this talk is irrelevant. up next, lost in translation. ohio congressman dennis kucinich this week went on an unofficial fact finding mission to syria. it's a questionable trip amid the syrian regime's brutal crackdown on anti-government protests. yesterday it got worse. the state-run news agency quoted kucinich say wk quote, there are some wanting to give a wrong picture about what is going on
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in syria. president al assad is highly loved and appreciated by the syrians. the congressman himself quickly put out a statement saying he was mistranslated. today in ohio, the federal appeals court ruled the obama health care law, including its individual mandate, is constitutional. with this latest decision, what's the law's overall score in the u.s. court system? 4-2. four federal courts have upheld health care reform. two have declared it unconstitutional. it's 4-2 on its way to the supreme court. tonight's big important number. up next, sarah palin says she's still thinking about running for president. is this a lebron james act? let's be honest. she almost certainly is not running. but she knows the media spotlight turns off quickly the minute she says so. so maybe we ought to just stop paying attention to her. but not tonight. we still are. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. but it doesn't cover everything. in fact, it only pays up to 80% of your part b expenses. if you're already on or eligible for medicare, call now to find out how an aarp... medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company, helps cover some of the medical expenses... not paid by medicare part b. that can save you from paying up to thousands of dollars... out of your own pocket. these are the only medicare supplement insurance plans... exclusively endorsed by aarp. when you call now, you'll get this free information kit... with all you need to enroll.
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>> i'm page hopkins. here's what's happening. more than 50 mem including a greek lawmaker were hurt as protesters clash with police in athens. this is the wake after parliamentary vote including a five-year austerity plan. the fda has a lab taking air samples over a wildfire threatening the loss alamos nuclear laboratory. they are holding the line along the southern boundry. in minot, north dakota, schools have been flooded. they are lining up temporary classes for fall.
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the coal mine where an explosion killed 29 men last year kept two sets of safety books. one for the company and a clean one for the government. casey anthony's father broke down on the stand talking about his suicide attempt in 2009. a note referred to unanswered questions about his granddaughter's disappearance. now let's take you back it "hardball." well, this is going to be wild if a bit troubling. welcome back to "hardball." sarah palin hit the ground in iowa last night for the premiere of hr documentary focusing on her tenure as the alaskan governor brief as it was.
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her daughter says she's made up her mind about a presidential run but sarah's not sure. not so sure? her daughter says she is. at least she isn't saying if she'll run for president. isn't this a waiting game? isn't it getting a bit tiresome for voter. susan milligan writes for u.s. news. it's fabulous here. yesterday morning on fox there's the daughter of sarah palin saying she knew what her mother's intentions are. let's get the form right. let's listen. >> do you get the sense that your mom has not made up her mind yet or do you think she knows and hasn't told us? >> you know, she definitely know. we've talked about it before. some things just need to stay in the family. >> not far from the tree there. my question, i have to ask you, is this -- remember lebron james? he cost an hour of primetime and he's already decided to announce he's going to miami and driving people crazy?
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is she doing this thing? >> well, as soon as she says she's not running for president, and i don't think she is, then nobody makes any more contributions to her pack which of course funded her family vacation. nobody buys her book. >> people take sides around here before the show. one of the issues is, suppose she steps back and becomes something like jesse jackson is after he loses. he would come back after a good showing in the fall, i mean the spring and the summer, and he
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would come back and, you know, get an airplane and a couple million bucks and voter registration and be all around the country campaigning. could she get some kind of gig like that? >> jesse jackson was an organizer. he grew up as an organizer for martin luther king jr. that's what he did -- >> but he stayed in the spotlight. >> it kept him in the spotlight and it helped the party. >> could she do that? is that her role model? >> not necessarily in the general election.
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in the general election i'm not sure mitt romney wants a lot of attention being taken up by sarah palin. whatever she does she will suck up oxygen and attention. that's what she's best at doing. >> you can't send her to aaa markets. you can't send her to sandusky and places like that. >> i also don't think this is even about the party. jesse jackson can help mobilize a certain part of the party. for her it's all about sarah palin and it's about the tv show and about the books and about making money. >> you think she's just playing this game for moolah? do you think that? >> i talked to people that do believe she herself believes she has the providential role to play. >> here she is at the movie premiere. palin was asked if she was running here. and here's her response. >> you know what i told bristol when i heard that? i said, bristol, what we say on the fishing boat stays on the fishing boat. you don't need to be announcing anything. >> i think you got the red carpet theory. there she is on the red carpet like nicole kidman or julia roberts or somebody. it's a movie star role that's fun. but what's it add up to? >> i don't think it adds up to a candidacy. we haven't seen her do any of the work it would take to build a candidacy. she's not schooling herself on the issues. >> has anyone ever figured out why a person comes so close. she's a national figure. these other guys like pawlenty
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would spend millions and millions of dollars to get to, attention. all she has to do is get some briefing books, get some people around her who know their stuff. it's not mentally demanding. get yourself on top on 20 or 30 of the top issue. maybe two or three. run for president. what's so hard about it? people that weren't brilliant -- nelson rockefeller did it. a lot of guys that weren't the most brilliant. >> she might have concluded that she can't win and it will hurt her political celebrity status where she could be beaten in iowa by michele bachmann. then she's no longer queen sarah palin. she's not the undefeated. she is the defeated. >> okay. let's assume she's not running. let's assume this is all a carnival act. she does have an interest in who does win. my contention, i'll try it on you experts. she doesn't want romney to win at the extense of the tea party. she wants somebody to win who says at the convention, come on up here, governor palin, i couldn't do it without you. that could be pawlenty. it can't be bachmann, i don't think. it could be rick perry of texas. doesn't chef to pick a champion if she doesn't run or else she runs the risk as just being shut out as you say out of the spotlight? >> i think for the moment we've been seeing she wants people to come kiss her ring. that's kind of what happened in new hampshire. >> you? >> yeah. >> i'm serious. is there any problem with somebody who isn't quite ready for the main reign to say i can't win it for a lot of reasons. i don't have the background to be president. let's be honest. i only have two years as governor. i'm not ready. i don't have the issues ready.
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so i'm going to push somebody. what does she do? >> she has influence. there's nothing wrong with leveraging that. >> perry? >> perry first has to get into the race. right now we see her not putting anything on the line. she may not make a decision until a week out. she's not -- >> put your cards on the table. susan milligan, is she going to run? >> no. >> is she going to run? >> don't think so. >> what did that say? i just missed your point. i don't think she's running. guess what else? i don't think rick perry's running, either. thank you. it's bachmann against romney. up next, georgia's tough new immigration law has led to a
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shortage of agricultural workers. this is what happens when you do what you say you're going to do. they're getting really tough down there. the farm workers are leafing georgia. the farmers down there with no workers. nobody working down there. north carolina is pushing a similar get-tough bill that would exempt agriculture workers, basically exempting the people they pretend to effect. what a joke. north carolina is pretending to do what georgia's doing to its own detriment. this is crazy. "hardball" coming up here on msnbc.
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here's a great question. who's the least popular governor in america right now? i knew it. rick scott. the newly elected republican's got 29% approval. i think it's going to go lower. in the latest quinnipiac poll. the lowest we've seen in the country. it may help put florida in play for president obama. having an enemy like him down there is better than a friend. wlost the most popular? might be new york's governor andrew cuomo. 8gg@รบ
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we're back. georgia's tough new immigration law won't take effect until this friday. but it's already driven crop workers out of the state. and created a serious labor shortage for the farmers who need to have people to help with need to have people to help with the harvesting. so north carolina decides to head off a similar agriculture
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disaster when it simply exempted seasonal employees, otherwise known as farm workers, from its own immigration law signed just last week. is north carolina sending a mixed message to illegal immigrants and just giving the appearance of being tough on immigration? are they trying to have it both way. managing attorney for the national immigration law center and senior editor for the atlantic. i want to start with meghan for the reporting here. is that the way it's going on? one state has passed something real tough that scared away the undocumented illegal workers, and the other state has said, well, we're going to pretend to be tough but we're going to exempt the very people that the people who are against illegal immigration want to target? >> well, look, farm work is -- >> am i right on the facts? >> i think, yes, that is certainly one way to look at it. >> how about the facts? is this correct? >> yes. north carolina has exempted its -- is looking to exempt its farm workers where georgia didn't and ran into big trouble. farm workers are some of the hardest jobs to fill for american. incredibly hard labor and actually what most people don't
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realize, it's skilled labor. the people who come up and do it have been doing it since they were children and there aren't a lot of people in these counties left who are used to doing the kind of hard stoop labor that -- >> these are picker. this is hard stoop work. usually done around the end of the summer. right? >> yes. actually, they start south and they work their way north and they sort of follow the harvest. and they work up from mexico. and, frankly, you know, i've done some of this. my grandfather, my family are farmers. my grandfather had a major garden. it's enormously hard work. >> how is the game, i'll call it a game, usually played? people show one kind of documentation. the manager recruiting the workers says, fine, you're working tomorrow? how is the game played? >> it depends on the location. there's a lot of nudge, nudge, wink, wink. >> is there some paper shown to pretend you're legal? >> it depends on the farmer. >> some don't finitely farmers who don't. they sometimes get caught in stings. the big farmers will usually i think try to pretend they're asking. it's very easy to come up with fake papers. >> let me go to karen. give me a feel on this story as you see it. >> well, the story as i see it
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is you have states trying to get in the business of regulating immigration, which is at its heart a federal question. and we need a federal solution. so the question here is not did georgia do the right thing, is north carolina doing something better? it's when are they getting back in the ring, pass the kind of immigration reform that we need. >> do you support law that will be >> what kind of law? >> are you for the united states government to have an enforceable immigration law in principal? >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> how do we fill the fields with workers willing to pay and get a just wage? that's what most americans want. a just wage with workers available. do we have guest worker program? what do we do? >> what we do is demand that our federal representatives get back about the business of coming up with an immigration reform
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system that is going to work for the needs of our society and the needs of our employers. we simply do not have that today. >> you won't get specific, and i wabtd want to get specific. people come up to work from below our border. they want to make a good wage and go home. why don't we make it legal? why don't we make it official formally and fairly? >> it's absolutely what we should do. we need to recognize the fact that literally we have by the most conservative estimates 8 million undocumented work illegal workers in the country. we need another path. >> i agree with that. i would say let them all stay
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here. i want to move onto stopping illegal immigration. is anybody serious about stopping illegal immigration or at least regulating the immigration flow that we have today and documenting it? who wants to actually do it? i don't hear anybody on the liberal side who wants to have actual checks on identification. >> well, i think this is the core problem that you run into is that when you get what -- i think we can all agree it's a
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pretty tough law in georgia. what you end up finding out is that illegal workers are filling a lot of issues in the economy that we need. people want to make a symbolic gesture against this to say we don't want people coming in undocumented, working illegally and competing with american workers, but they don't want to pay twice as much for their fruit or three times as much for the meat from the slaughter house. >> i don't understand why the united states is the only country incapable of having a reasonable immigration policy. liberal, enforceable and workable. nobody seems to have that plan. sure, legalize everybody here. next step, let's have a plan that actually works. they say, well, we really don't want worker i.d. cards. we don't want anything like that. i don't hear anybody but schumer and the late ted kennedy and
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maybe lindsay graham are the only people serious in the business. is there somebody else i'm missing? >> the united states -- >> let me ask karen this question. karen, is anybody serious on true litigation reform? make an official system that works. >> absolutely. i mine, senator menendez just last week introduced legislation that is comprehensive in nature, that would create a path to legal status and also move towards enforcing immigration law. >> is he for identification of workers so you know when you're hiring somebody illegal or not? is he for that system? >> the principles in the senator's bill include making sure we have a path to legal status. >> thank you. >> that's a job killer. >> that is the problem i have with the people who support immigration reform. used by physical therapists and chiropractors, also with a vanishing scent. you are so smart. love you! [ male announcer ] new bengay cold therapy. the same technology used by physical therapists. go to for a $5.00 coupon.
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let me finish tonight the way president obama began it.
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give them hell, barry. that was our cold open tonight. our headline in television talk. and it says it all. president barack obama, barry when he was a kid, has sounded the trumpet. you want to blame somebody for the failure of the economy, for the failure of government to move forward? blame the republicans and the people they represent. the same people who got us into this economic hell. you stay here, the president said to the congress today in his jam by a republican tea party falanks in the house and the 60-vote rule in the senate. let's get it done. stop talking so much. stop taking so much time off. stop the job killing game you're playing with the national debt. stop driving up interest rates by sitting on your butts and talking the tired tea party talking points. give them hell, barry, you're talking like a harry truman. you're doing what he did six decades ago in philadelphia in an unaired convention hall when truman stood there at 36% in the polls and told the republican congress to get back to work flchlt the middle of the night as democratic delegates suffered through the heat in west philly, truman fired up those democrats by challenging the republicans to fulfill their own promises. now here's obama doing the same, talking about crating jobs and going after unions instead of other items on their to-do list
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like killing medicare and protecting the wealthy. i know full well, or i think i do, why the president set loose today. he got a poll showing people are ready to hear what they're saying. a strong majority of the country right now blames the current economic condition on two factors, the bush administration and wall street. only 1 in 12 blame president obama. 1 in 12. so here goes. all the noise this country has been coming from the right. the republican party has become the country's complaining corner. they hate government. they hate washington. they hate obama being president. they hate getting up in the morning. they hate going to bed at night. now they're going to get to feel the heat, hitting their own sacred cows. wall street and the crowd that slipped out of town just as the walls were tumbling down. so get out your crying towels, folks on the right. you're about to feel the heat. the circus parade of donald trump and sarah palin and glenn beck and rush limbaugh has had its fun.


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